VR Health Insider Podcast – Episode 11: ICAROS

Welcome to the newest episode of the VR Health Insider Podcast!

Right this moment, we’re thrilled to have Johannes Scholl on the present, who’s the co-founder and CEO of ICAROS, an modern digital actuality train system that mixes immersive gaming experiences with bodily health. Johannes and his staff have been pushing the boundaries of VR health, introducing a singular method to figuring out that has captured the eye of health fanatics and tech lovers alike. We will’t await Johannes to share his insights and the story behind ICAROS with you.

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Episode 11 – ICAROS

Preston Lewis: [00:00:00] Welcome to the VR Health Insiders podcast, for the creators who’re constructing the way forward for the VR and AR sports activities and health industries that can revolutionize the way in which the world will play sports activities, work out and get match. Together with your hosts, preston Lewis and Ryan DeLuca, the founders of Black Field VR, who’re constructing the world’s first full health VR fitness center and convey many years of expertise from creating a few of the largest health know-how firms on the planet. They’re bringing collectively the most effective and brightest minds that will help you and your organization succeed within the VR health revolution.

Welcome to the VR Health Insider podcast. Right this moment we’ve got Johannes Scholl on the present who’s the co-founder and CEO of ICAROS. With a mission to empower people to realize their well being and health objectives by the usage of innovative know-how and immersive gaming experiences. Johannes, thanks a lot for being right here with us.

Johannes Scholl: Thanks for having me, and I sit up for this dialog with you guys.

Preston Lewis: So to kick it off, we wanna know what obtained you into VR and health within the first place? Type of how did your [00:01:00] private pursuits lead you right here?

Johannes Scholl: In order you’ll be able to think about, it’s fairly of an extended story, however I’ll attempt to make an extended story brief. I studied industrial design. So did my co-founder. And once I was nonetheless at college, I all the time knew that after I’d begin engaged on my grasp’s thesis, it must be one thing round health. And that was additionally across the time once I met my co-founder Michael, who was already operating a design company down in Munich.

And I used to be working with him and I’ve instructed him about my concept and I mentioned, “hey, you realize what? I need to do one thing modern. I need to do one thing particular round health.” And he mentioned, “that’s cool, I wish to help you right here, however let’s not carry the bench press 2.0 or one thing. Let’s carry one thing actually modern, that the health business hasn’t seen earlier than.” He’s into health, we’re each into industrial design, and we mentioned, “okay, what’s probably the most motivating health expertise that we may consider?”

And we mentioned, ” how would it not be if we may create the feeling of flying [00:02:00] while doing all of your exercise?” As a result of we figured that having the ability to fly is a mankind’s dream, irrespective of the place on the planet. Like, everyone has dreamt of this as soon as, proper? So we got here up with this primary idea and the enjoyable factor actually is that this all befell earlier than digital actuality was a factor. It was earlier than Oculus. It was earlier than Oculus first Kickstarter marketing campaign. Nonetheless we had the concept that if this could work, it may solely work with digital actuality, proper? So ultimately, what we created again then was the long run idea of what we thought how health train may look in twenty 5 years from now.

Little did we all know that only a couple months later, digital actuality did grew to become a factor, and t hat’s the place your entire story began actually.

Ryan DeLuca: So many individuals after they first consider like, “oh, what may you do with, like, you realize, gaming and health?” And the very first thing is, like, actually, actually primary stuff. Like, “oh, you might be having a private coach, or you might do that stuff you used to do in a traditional fitness center, however now in a recreation or in VR.” Which simply feels just like the least [00:03:00] artistic method to do it. Like, that is this entire new method to do issues. Why would you wanna do bench press 2.0? Like, no person needs to bench press. ? Even those who say they like bench urgent, they in all probability don’t actually adore it that a lot in comparison with different issues. Why would you wanna try this versus, like, thrilling recreation and flying in VR?

Johannes Scholl: The factor was we wished to create a complete expertise and I feel that sounds acquainted to you. And after we began, we had this whole freedom of concepts, you realize? We had been considering so freely, as a result of there was no strain on us. We didn’t consider it as a enterprise within the very first place. As a result of as I mentioned, we had been considering like that is going to occur in twenty years from now. The enjoyable factor actually is when the primary headsets got here out, particularly the commercially accessible headsets. For instance, the Samsung Gear VR. In the event you keep in mind? The place you probably did put your smartphone in, and you then would have it as a VR display. Samsung was considered one of our very first prospects. They purchased a few ICAROS models to set them up of their pop-up shops that they had been opening all throughout Europe to demo their new know-how.

I assume one of many first [00:04:00] peripherals for digital actuality that you might get. In order that they geared up the entire pop-up shops with our machines to demo their very own know-how. And that was nice. And that’s additionally why I preach that timing is such an essential issue if you launch a brand new product, launch a brand new concept. And we stood on the station earlier than the hype practice arrived and we simply needed to leap onto it, and that basically helped us very a lot to get going.

Preston Lewis: That’s tremendous cool. And also you kinda alluded to it, the flying, proper? However inform us about your product. What precisely is ICAROS? What’s the expertise like? What makes it particular and why’d you determine to create it this manner?

Johannes Scholl: It grew to become a bit more durable to elucidate within the final couple of years, due to course our portfolio has grown and we now have a spread of merchandise. I assume the one the place every little thing began with, and nonetheless the expertise that we’re most well-known for, is the mixture of a core exercise and a digital actuality flying expertise.

So let me begin with that. And principally, it’s a rig that you’d enter in a plank-like place. However you [00:05:00] wouldn’t simply lay on there, however you’ll be capable to transfer round, actually, and by shifting your physique weight forwards and backwards and to the left and proper, you’ll be able to maneuver that factor. And we’re detecting your motions on the machine with movement sensors. And ultimately, we’re transferring your motions on the machine into digital actuality gameplay.

So it will grow to be, say a Superman simulator, no matter you’re doing bodily on the machine you’re doing in digital actuality. And it offers you a fairly intense core exercise, fairly intense shoulder exercise. Nevertheless it won’t solely enhance, like, your muscle energy, however it would additionally enhance your sense for stability. Your coordination, your response, performance of your core. So actually, it’s about say, mind-muscle connection. That’s why it’s additionally utilized in remedy and stuff like that. Perhaps we communicate extra about that later. So you’re in that planking place carrying your headset, together with your motions on the machine. You’re controlling the gameplay. Most of it’s about flying, nevertheless it doesn’t essentially must be flying; there’s additionally [00:06:00] underwater experiences, stuff like that.

I feel for me probably the most spectacular ones, one is our digital actuality multiplayer. It’s known as ICARACE. So that may be a futuristic racing recreation the place you’ll fly a spaceship and you’ll race different pilots, as we name them, from possibly even different nations, different elements on the planet, reside in digital actuality. And that may be a very intense expertise. And people races, they final for ten minutes, proper about, and it’s a tricky one. Every year we’ve got world championships the place we invite the most effective pilots which have certified within the on-line pre-season, after which we put them on stage, allow them to race one another.

After which one other one, which I imagine may be very spectacular. We began engaged on these form of experiences two years in the past, proper about. Now we have a cooperation with one other firm right here from Munich, they’re known as Actuality Maps. They offered us with panorama knowledge that they create utilizing photogrammetry. And for instance, we’ve got now digitalized a few of [00:07:00] probably the most iconic sceneries within the Alps. Like we’ve got the Dolomites, or we’ve got elements of the Swiss Alps or the German Alps. And you’ll actually undergo these form of landscapes. Now we have a Wingsuit simulator in there, racetracks, all this enjoyable stuff.

And you’ll expertise this in actual locations. Identical to Google Earth, however on a better high quality degree. There’s much more, however that’s form of what’s occurring in digital actuality if you end up one of many ICAROS gadgets.

Ryan DeLuca: Nicely, we talked about the place your product is right this moment, and naturally, persevering with to work and make it even higher, nevertheless it’s such an thrilling factor. Clearly you didn’t begin there, if you first began with the primary model to right this moment. What kind of learnings did you have got from the start, that if you happen to may return to your self again in these days, you’ll inform your self?

Johannes Scholl: Many, many alternative ones. However, let me strive with a few of the most essential ones for me.

So first, as I mentioned, my co-founder and I we’re each industrial designers. We’re each artistic minds, which is an effective factor and in addition a nasty factor. What I all the time strive is, I attempt to visualize concepts very early, after which we additionally attempt to [00:08:00] prototype concepts as quickly as attainable to have the ability to take a look at them. And so, stroll the stroll, proper? No matter you visualize may flip right into a actuality at one level, it could not, but when you don’t visualize it, if you don’t construct, it won’t occur in any respect. In order that’s for certain.

After we began off first, and I feel that was additionally with many different gamers within the area of digital actuality, particularly. No one actually knew the place it will be going, the place it was heading. From our DNA, we knew that we wished to mix health and gaming.

With the primary video games we constructed, we didn’t have any expertise. We didn’t have any consumer suggestions. So I imply, it’s essential to know who’s the consumer, who’s the shopper? Who’s the consumer. Typically that’s the similar particular person. Typically it’s not the identical particular person, and you should have a buyer and you should have an finish consumer.

What do they count on from you? It’s that small line between getting consumer suggestions, implementing consumer suggestions, and listening to the customers. And generally additionally to not hearken to them and do your individual factor, as a result of possibly you realize [00:09:00] higher and you realize what’s forward, you realize, you’re one step forward of them.

So I feel that’s a superb line between implementing consumer suggestions and, on the similar time, be true to your self, as a result of who got here up with that idea? You probably did. So imagine in your self as properly. Nevertheless, it actually comes all the way down to what I imagine product market match. That’s for certain. You may have the fanciest concepts, if the product won’t work within the designated setting, you’ll not have a enterprise. Proper? I feel that was one thing, particularly within the first two, three years or so, the place we additionally needed to be taught loads. Like, who’s the shopper? Who’re we constructing it for? In what means is it going for use? The place will or not it’s most useful? The place will it actually make a distinction?

How can we resolve the issues that our buyer has and stuff like that. That is quite common, however nonetheless it’s one thing that it’s important to be taught originally. And the opposite factor, I feel that you realize very properly, since you did do that very properly if you began, and I additionally suppose that we didn’t do the worst job right here, was being loud. And being [00:10:00] acknowledged and being, like, in all places. And that’s one thing the place I feel we additionally did a great job. So if you begin one thing new, it’s important to be, it’s important to be loud, proper? Go for the awards, go for the commerce exhibits, go for the media, go for the bloggers, go for social media, go for… take no matter you’ll be able to take to guarantee that folks will take discover.

I keep in mind after we first went to CES, we had been down within the Sands Expo at Eureka Park. And again then it was, you had these ten by ten cubicles. Tremendous small, like startup zoo, form of, tremendous vibrant environment, very crowded. And we introduced the ICAROS machine, the primary professional machine for the very first time. And the sales space was packed, and we had press, and media, and plenty of stuff was occurring. For us, it was an amazing expertise. The primary present within the US, and all of this buzz occurring. And we took loads out of it.

Nevertheless, one 12 months later we went to the identical place, Eureka Park, similar ten by ten cubicles. And the one distinction was that this time we had [00:11:00] a correct video on YouTube and on social media, like Fb, again then it was. And it modified every little thing. This time we had, inside one week, we had greater than thirty million views on our video. And it obtained viral and it was Mashable, and Bored Panda, and USA Right this moment, and also you title it. It was the identical product, was the identical present, similar folks. The one distinction was that our preparations had been loads higher this time. Then additionally you bought luck and timing and stuff like that. That’s additionally studying. It’s important to be loud, it’s important to be current, however you additionally must be ready to make one thing out of it. However finally, this story additionally has a draw back, as a result of that was, I imagine, 2017? And I imply, what does CES stand for? It stands for Client Digital Present.

Electronics, sure. Present, sure. Client, no. We solely had this huge ICAROS promo that you’d purchase for 9 thousand again then. So, we acquired, I don’t know, seven, eight thousand emails, and we [00:12:00] had been three folks. And we had been doing night time shifts simply to reply these emails. And you’ll think about that ninety % of these requests had been, like, “okay, can I get this for my lounge?”

And we’re like, “properly, sure you’ll be able to, nevertheless it’s ten grand.” So, it actually helped us to drive substantial enterprise again then. Nonetheless these days with all, we’ve got the buyer vary in line, and the web store and every little thing. So if you happen to would have the identical thirty million video views and 7 thousand emails, we may make much more out of it. However that’s form of the tales you’ll be able to inform later.

Preston Lewis: For higher or for worse, as pioneers, we’re paying the innovation tax, proper?

Somebody’s gotta do it, gotta go on the market and blaze the path. And so we’re actually appreciative to others that try this. You guys included, as a result of after we began Black Field in 2016, we might say the time period “VR health”, and their eyes would glaze over they usually’d be tremendous confused. They didn’t perceive. And so simply because ICAROS, and possibly Virtuix and a whole lot of these folks have been within the recreation so lengthy with these viral movies, and [00:13:00] taking the dangers. It’s clearly been costly initially, nevertheless it’s pushed your entire business ahead.

So, positively cool that you simply guys did that.

Johannes Scholl: I briefly talked about earlier, I feel that was earlier than the digicam was rolling. We simply obtained again from FIBO in Cologne a pair weeks in the past. I imply, that’s one of many greatest health and physique constructing exhibits on the planet. This 12 months they’d a chosen space for XR gaming, digital actuality, eSports health. 5 years in the past, unthinkable. Unthinkable. And now you’ll be able to see that. I feel that’s very cool. It’s nice that the organizers acknowledge the potential and in addition that they do one thing out of it. And now you’ll be able to actually really feel the help of the business and in addition the acceptance on the opposite facet, which is simply as essential. You can’t solely simply push know-how after which await it. That’s not the way it works. So that you want the acceptance too. We all know that there’s potential in utilizing digital actuality or gamification typically in health. The exercises are extra fascinating, you can also make them simpler.

You may actually make them addictive, like an eSports expertise. In a great way.

Preston Lewis: [00:14:00] You simply made me suppose that, you might virtually have, a triathlon-style occasion. Kinda like you have got with biking, swimming, operating, the place it could possibly be, Black Field exercise, ICAROS flying, a Virtuix operating expertise. The place you might really do that, triathlon, multi-event kind of an expertise. However with this futuristic know-how.

Johannes Scholl: I completely see this and we should always discuss this, as a result of I do know that many individuals on the market would love being part of this. I feel that’s additionally a imaginative and prescient, like having these XR Olympics factor, form of, occurring.

Ryan DeLuca: It’s far more thrilling. There’s so many issues you are able to do in these loopy fantasy worlds you couldn’t do in a real-life triathlon. And extra accessible and might follow from dwelling. Like, there’s so many cool elements that, I imply, that’s for certain coming. The superb factor is folks say, “oh, VR, like, I don’t need that. It’s this dystopian concept and I’m all on my own in my headset.” The place it’s, like, the precise reverse is true. Like, you’ll be able to have probably the most social expertise with different folks. And even simply, like, the Zwift-style stuff, it’s like social health and be capable to be there with different folks. And the enjoyable, aggressive and cooperative. And eSports as we’ve seen, like, it could possibly be probably the most social factor, which [00:15:00] the social a part of it’s actually what drives how a lot you care about it and the which means behind the actions.

So that you talked about, you bought suggestions at a few of the commerce exhibits and clearly from the press. What suggestions have you ever acquired from those who have used your product, and, you realize, any attention-grabbing tales or something that’s stunning that got here out of that?

Johannes Scholl: We’ve all the time been working not solely within the health business, but in addition within the medical well being rehabilitation and remedy world. And we’ve got strengthened that work. And simply within the final couple of months we’ve got put in the primary ICAROS well being models, that’s our flagship mannequin, in hospitals, for instance. And in German rehabilitation hospitals. And it’s simply nice to get suggestions from sufferers utilizing our gadgets, as a result of for them digital actuality typically, and I feel our gadgets specifically, can actually be a recreation changer. If in case you have an individual that will increase their strolling pace considerably after a stroke, by utilizing ICAROS gadgets, discount of spasms, enhance of whole physique composition, general happiness of their life and having a [00:16:00] joyful rehabilitation expertise. As a result of if you happen to’re going to rehab, this is usually a very irritating expertise for you, possibly generally with little progress, lack of motivation, ache and every little thing that’s associated to it.

And I imply, if you happen to ask me for the best tales to inform, I’ll inform you affected person tales. Particular person success tales of sufferers. Whether or not it’s orthopedic, decrease again ache or if it’s neurologic sufferers. That’s one thing very rewarding to see.

After which final however not least, within the final years and now once more after Covid, we’ve got put in a few of our models in a few of the coolest locations on Earth. Like the highest notch medical retreats, the excessive finish 5 star motels. Like, the locations the place the wealthy and the well-known go. You see the skilled athletes and the celebrities figuring out with it. In the event you look again a few years and also you mentioned, “you turned this into actuality”, that’s an amazing story.

Preston Lewis: That’s tremendous cool. I imply, after we began Black Field VR, a whole lot of it was based mostly on the truth that most individuals give up their health packages, proper? The adherence [00:17:00] to a health program is simply dismal throughout the board. As a result of why? It’s boring, it’s not very partaking, a whole lot of instances it’s not very social, it hurts. , possibly you don’t have entry to a fitness center or no matter. And so, it’s attention-grabbing as a result of it’s the identical factor with rehabilitation, proper? Individuals go in, they get a surgical procedure, and we hear it on a regular basis from a few of the hospitals we talked to within the early days, however they principally mentioned, you realize, “no less than fifty % of individuals will drop out.” In the event you’re not adhering to a health program, it’s simply unhealthy to your normal well being, proper? It’s simply you’re not gonna be as match, you’re not gonna get the cognitive advantages and all these different superb issues that include figuring out frequently.

However in rehabilitation, it’s even worse, proper? As a result of if you happen to get a surgical procedure and if you happen to don’t adhere to a program, you’ll be able to now not bend your knee, possibly. You may now not prolong your arm, proper? In order that’s, I feel the cool factor about this know-how throughout the board, whether or not it’s from health or rehab, such as you’re speaking about. Is that gamification and these recreation mechanics paired with these immersive applied sciences have the power to drastically [00:18:00] enhance that adherence degree by the enjoyable, and the epicness and engagement. And as you each have talked about, having the potential to be rather more social as properly, so.

Johannes Scholl: The social side. We’re capable of customise the expertise and to individualize the exercise and create a custom-made rehabilitation journey. Now we have simply launched the software program that known as ICAROS N.E.X.T., Neuro Expertise Coaching, the place you as a affected person would enter the machine for the primary time and you’ll get your first, like, preset take a look at to search out out what’s your present health degree. And from that time on, you should have custom-made particular person race tracks that may be designed only for you based mostly in your private skillset. After which the higher you grow to be, the tougher, the tougher it would get. So it would continuously push you to the sting of your consolation zone. After which over time we’ll see your progress, your particular person progress, that you would be able to additionally evaluate to others.

However ultimately, it’s your journey and you’ll be pleased with your self and your progress. And the software program, it would all the time be as match as you’re and [00:19:00] it would all the time carry you to your most and attempt to get the most effective out of you. And, I imply, there’s much more of potential in gamification typically, too. It’s not simply that it’s extra enjoyable. In the event you construct a great recreation that’s given, however then what else are you able to do with it? Like actually driving the effectiveness of every session. That’s one thing we’re wanting into loads proper now. And it’s additionally for the long run software program improvement, like particular person exercises, plans, rehabilitation journeys. That’s one thing we’re positively wanting into loads.

Ryan DeLuca: Nobody ever says they’re excited to go to rehab. ? Isn’t that the Amy Winehouse track? It’s like, “they tried to make me go to rehab, however I mentioned, no, no, no.”

However yeah. However no person’s ever like, “what do you have got occurring right this moment?” It’s like, “I’m gonna rehab, I’m so excited. It’s rehab day.” ? I imply, what we take into consideration loads is so many issues in life that you simply need to do, that it is best to do, proper?

Since you ought to do it. It’s best to learn these books. It’s best to exercise, clearly, it is best to eat, you realize, the best meals. It’s important to, like, pressure your self to do it. Or do some form of, like, incentive to make it so that you do it. Like, your physician’s gonna yell at you if you happen to [00:20:00] don’t do the rehab.

However, you realize, you go to regular rehab and clearly, like we talked about the identical as like a exercise, like, it’s not enjoyable. It’s time consuming. It’s painful. You don’t see instant outcomes, you realize? You don’t instantly go in there and see one thing. The place with video games you’ll be able to see instant outcomes. Like, you simply hit a brand new document on this or attain this new degree, and also you’re getting the rewards, and pleasure and there’s simply so many issues you might do.

What we actually suppose is, it’s much less about to get folks simply do what they know they need to do and take a look at to determine how one can pressure that. However how can we make the factor it is best to do one thing you need to do.

Perhaps we’ll swap gears just a bit bit, be taught a bit of bit extra concerning the enterprise facet of ICAROS. , what’s the general enterprise mannequin? I do know you have got completely different fashions going into B2B. You clearly have the house variations of what you have got, however inform us a bit of bit extra concerning the enterprise mannequin and the way you’re working to make that profitable.

Johannes Scholl: Proper. So, usually, you might determine between these two branches. We obtained the buyer department and the opposite one is the industrial. Simply traditionally we began ICAROS with industrial product, I discussed earlier. Like 10k for the {hardware}, after which we might go into these prime [00:21:00] locations, and a few of that is nonetheless the case.

Nevertheless, particularly after this occasion on CES, we seen okay, there’s some sturdy demand from shoppers on the market. So, we should always have one thing for them at hand as properly. Till the Covid pandemic actually hit, we had been on the trail to work on the industrial health and medical and people top-notch resort. So it was all industrial prospects, who all shut down by the pandemic. After which, we needed to, form of, invent a second enterprise mannequin. And that invention was the ICAROS HOME with the ICAROS CLOUD. And in addition we stepped again from solely making digital actuality content material to additionally having a cell app that may run on the consumer’s pill or smartphone.

And that may work with some quite simple gadgets like our ICAROS CLOUD, which is an inflatable full physique exercise machine. That within the first place doesn’t work with digital actuality. So these days, I feel we’ve got much more customers on our cell app than we’ve got in digital actuality. Nonetheless, we’ve got a bit [00:22:00] completely different enterprise fashions right here.

So if we might discuss to industrial prospects these days, many of the income we might generate with this sort of buyer is thru the {hardware} and software program lifetime license. So, for instance, if we might discuss to a remedy middle in Germany and we’d arrange a tool for say twenty 5 thousand euros, for them, it’s actually essential to, like, have this one time fee after which have your entire system arrange after which go from there. The extra we glance into health and shoppers, the extra we glance into recurring income by software program subscriptions. Particularly our ICAROS app, it’s a month-to-month subscription. It’s nineteen {dollars} per thirty days. And you’ll select month-to-month, you’ll be able to activate or deactivate. So I feel it is extremely honest contract that we’re providing right here and it’s continuously rising, that may be a beauty of it. On-line subscriptions, they’re turning into an increasing number of essential for our whole enterprise mannequin.

As a client, you’ll purchase an ICAROS HOME or ICAROS CLOUD, you’ll get the unit and you then would look into the [00:23:00] subscriptions. However usually content material is king, and it’s extra, and an increasing number of concerning the content material. After I communicate of improvement these days, my co-founder, who’s main our improvement staff, it’s software program improvement actually. And it’s additionally enjoyable to see, since you’re getting that suggestions so immediately.

You launch a brand new recreation, you will note the acceptance fee. You will notice how lengthy might be performed. Are folks keen to pay for it? Will they invite others? Will they battle one another on the leaderboard? Stuff like that. I, in fact, love the web method, as a result of it’s like getting in shut contact with the tip consumer. So, these are the 2 enterprise fashions for us.

Final however not least, by Covid additionally, we actually began with establishing a web based retailer and promoting on to shoppers. So we actually kicked off D2C enterprise, that we didn’t have three years in the past. The world has opened up once more, not solely in Europe and the US, but in addition Asia now. New tasks are being began, health requirements, motels. So it’s nice to be again on the map for them. But in addition, we construct up this complete client [00:24:00] universe and it’s nice to have this now, as a result of we will simply hold doing that with out letting go of the enterprise prospects. In order that’s form of what we’re taking a look at proper now.

Preston Lewis: As you’re saying that, it’s actually attention-grabbing to suppose again, as a result of hindsight’s twenty-twenty and, fortunately issues have, form of, labored out in the way in which we might hope with, so far as VR health within the business, proper? As a result of I imply, it may have taken a very completely different flip. Meta won’t have invested in it. HTC won’t have stored going with their gadgets and stuff, nevertheless it’s, form of, turned out for us.

However what it makes me take into consideration is, you have got a cell app, which you talked about has extra folks utilizing it proper now. Whereas VR, it’s nonetheless early. It’s attention-grabbing, as a result of to me it sort of feels like after we had been at Bodybuilding.com, it was the identical dialogue between cell and net. Proper? While you’re constructing software program merchandise. It was, like, we had like ninety % of the order… properly, I imply, clearly 100% had been, like, desktop. After which there was this second, Ryan and I keep in mind, the place it was, like, “wow, cell is gonna take over all of this, we should always in all probability get forward of these things.”

And so it’s simply actually attention-grabbing that we’re nonetheless in that second in [00:25:00] time. I feel it’s essential for our listeners, as a result of early days was tremendous dangerous to get into VR. Now we’ve, form of, handed this hump the place it’s nonetheless early days, there’s nonetheless a ton of alternative within the business. However we’re, form of, now on that precipice of, like, “are they actually gonna go away from utilizing their cell phones? Wouldn’t folks reasonably watch motion pictures and issues on their cell phones?” It’s like, properly, wait a minute. Fairly quickly it’s gonna be hindsight, the place they’re like, “oh, everybody has a really cheap headset the place they can’t solely fulfill all their leisure wants, however they’re gonna be capable to do all of the health stuff.”

So, thought that was a extremely essential level that got here to thoughts, as you’re saying this entire, “proper now, our cell app has extra customers, however VR, you realize, it’s choosing up.” It’s nonetheless a ton of alternative for builders and creators to have the ability to get into this.

Johannes Scholl: One of many main causes for us after we developed the CLOUD, and the cell app and that whole system was, we try to reply three questions. As a result of let’s say, okay, it’s Covid and also you need to promote product to the web retailer, like, what’s wanted.

And we mentioned, we need to construct a full physique exercise machine. So it must be full physique, which the ICAROS gadgets, they provide [00:26:00] you core, they provide you shoulder, they provide you coordination. However for instance, arms or legs don’t actually play a serious position on the ICAROS machine. So we mentioned, okay, it must be full physique.

Then the opposite factor was, it must be appropriate for your entire household. So, if mommy buys it and she or he must justify, she will be able to say, “hey, the children can use it, you should use it.” So it must be adaptable for particular person necessities. Then the opposite factor was, must be shipped in a single field by way of UPS. As a result of we’ll solely be capable to ship it by the web retailer.

Once more, the fourth one, and that was actually essential, was, we need to have a really low entry hurdle on the technological facet. So we mentioned, realistically right this moment, three years in the past, like, what number of of our potential prospects do personal a headset? Not too many. What number of of those will purchase a headset, as a result of their need to get that exercise expertise with ICAROS is so sturdy. A few them. We’re promoting headsets loads, not a giant deal. However what’s the machine, what’s the know-how that the entire potential prospects have already got? [00:27:00] That’s the cell machine. So ultimately, that’s how we developed the system.

We sneak into the households of the folks with out promoting them an excessive amount of additional tools. Nonetheless, we’re sturdy believers within the potential of VR, and particularly there the place digital actuality shouldn’t be a nice-to-have, however it might actually flip into essential. And, I discussed remedy earlier. Additionally skilled sports activities.

With utilizing digital actuality, you’ll be able to actually make the exercises grow to be simpler. You may make a distinction in how the folks react. If we discuss to stroke sufferers, for instance, the immersion in digital actuality makes such a distinction for them, as a result of they, form of, go away the actual world and all of a sudden the psychological impact performs a giant position.

Or I can ask the identical particular person to lean to the best fifteen levels and maintain that place for a minute, and that particular person will inform me, ” have a look at me, I’m not ready to try this.” And the identical particular person, [00:28:00] I’ll put the VR headset on and can ask to try this motion, as a result of the particular person doesn’t need to hit an impediment or they need to accumulate some factors, and all of a sudden voila. It really works.

And I present that particular person the video in a while they usually say, ” oh shit, that’s unbelievable.”

Preston Lewis: Wow.

Johannes Scholl: They, form of, really feel themselves otherwise. It may be skilled athletes on the lookout for these additional beneficial properties. And so the cognitive side and the psychological side that you would be able to add in quite simple methods simply by placing a headset on. Low price, accessible in every single place.

I imply, that may grow to be an actual recreation changer. And I feel that the business must also look into these advantages and make use of them as a substitute of simply copying what’s already there.

I’m curious, like, how your entire VR business will develop, and when will we see these headsets and the releases of huge firms. I assume everyone’s curious.

Ryan DeLuca: That’s an amazing segue. what’s attention-grabbing is, I completely agree. In the event you consider VR as only a display in your face, and it’s like, “what’s a giant deal? , like, I’d reasonably simply have a display [00:29:00] some place else.” However if you really understand and see the research which have proven that, like, your mind treats it fully completely different. Everyone knows Thoughts Over Matter. And the Placebo Impact.

There’s many alternative issues that like you’ll be able to, like, virtually hack your mind to transcend your limitations. And simply, it’s an entire new world. After which as soon as folks understand like, “whoa, this can be a new paradigm for what’s attainable in all these completely different areas, that makes it means higher.” , not simply, like, 5 % higher, however doubtlessly 10x higher.

Johannes Scholl: Precisely.

Ryan DeLuca: That’s that psychological leap, I feel, that imaginative and prescient that after folks get that, and that we and others are proving it out, that’s gonna assist to essentially drive that dwelling. And I feel, to only form of segue proper into that, right this moment’s VR health panorama, clearly with you and plenty of different nice firms which are constructing experiences and at-home and in-gym. With the know-how we’ve got right this moment, which is means higher than these early years, you realize, that we keep in mind seven years in the past. Nevertheless it’s nonetheless not fairly the place we would like, however what do you consider the cutting-edge health right this moment? And extra importantly, the place do you suppose it’s gonna go? {Hardware}, software program adoption for health and sports activities, extra particularly, within the [00:30:00] subsequent three to 5 years?

Johannes Scholl: It’s exhausting to inform the place it’s going, however my want for the place it must be going is that we focus onto the advantages and on the massive distinction that digital actuality, the impression it might have. And the instant impact on coaching, particularly the cognitive, psychological facets. Anticipation, coordination, stability, like, full skillset that in any other case you’ll possibly solely practice while going snowboarding or enjoying tennis, and stuff like that.

Then making use of, actually, the group side, the social side. Being at dwelling, having a cool class with different folks, irrespective of the place on the planet. I don’t know the place it’s going, however I’m certain that it’ll not disappear.

I imagine that the builders and the gamers within the business, additionally the know-how producers, they need to additionally hyperlink and cooperate and inform one another the place stuff’s going. Expertise must help us as builders to make this imaginative and prescient flip right into a actuality.

If that’s occurring, then I see an amazing future for digital actuality train with all [00:31:00] these completely different sides and facets.

Preston Lewis: What I feel the cool factor too is, I imply, we’re all doing this for lots of various causes, proper? As a result of we’ve got a imaginative and prescient, but in addition on the finish of the day, that is gonna actually positively impression folks’s lives.

It’s the mission to have the ability to assist folks, in Black Field’s case, assist them degree up their lives utilizing this immersive know-how, by creating these addictive health experiences, particularly the habit. I imply, it’s all the time been this sort of like adverse connotation, however we actually suppose that gamifying issues the best means can create wholesome addictions which are gonna make it easier to. Like we talked about originally of the podcast.

Johannes Scholl: A optimistic behavior.

Preston Lewis: Yeah, precisely. A optimistic behavior that individuals persist with and cling to that get all of them the opposite optimistic advantages of that. In order that being mentioned, form of, segueing into what’s been probably the most rewarding side of constructing ICAROS?

Has it been a buyer testimonial? Perhaps one thing you noticed within the medical area? Perhaps it’s simply the pure pleasure of making a cool, modern product? What’s been probably the most rewarding side?

Johannes Scholl: There’s many alternative rewarding ones, as you mentioned. The pure pleasure of [00:32:00] making a related, radically new modern know-how. And being acknowledged as a related participant in that area, in our time alone is one thing that I imagine, as a product developer and startup founder, is one thing that many individuals would possibly dream of being in that place in some unspecified time in the future. So you need to be grateful for that alone. That’s rewarding within the first place, constructing one thing actually out of nowhere, and turning that imaginative and prescient right into a actuality. All in all, that’s crucial and most rewarding side.

Nevertheless, if you happen to have a look at it extra intently, it’s in fact the folks utilizing the gadgets. Particularly the sufferers bettering on the gadgets, folks altering their minds and altering their methods to reside and being extra lively, dwelling extra wholesome life-style. And telling you this on Instagram. These days, a lot of instances I actually simply repost consumer generated content material, as a result of I see folks at dwelling, working with our gadgets, with [00:33:00] their household. And I didn’t ask them to publish a video of it, it’s simply they get pleasure from their exercise they usually get pleasure from figuring out with the techniques. That’s the second half that’s simply actually rewarding, and it exhibits you that the know-how you’re working with, the merchandise you constructing, that they’re related.

Final however not least, in fact it’s cool to see a few of the models being put in in a few of these locations the place I’d by no means dream of. It’s not a lot concerning the folks. It’s nice if celebrities use it, and stuff like that. However actually, like, having these amenities recognizing your entire potential this know-how has, and utilizing our models, putting in them there. And utilizing them as, to not brag with it, however actually additionally as like, “hey, look what we obtained, we obtained this ICAROS software.” Now we have this one set up in Switzerland on the Purple Bull media world the place they are saying, “hey, this unit we’ve got right here, we can’t change the tools, we can’t change, we can’t take your tools out right here.”

They’re simply utilizing it throughout, and over, and over, and over and each two years or so, it’s important to go there and tighten all of the [00:34:00] screws and take care of the models, as a result of they’re used a lot. And I feel these are probably the most rewarding facets of your entire journey.

Not a lot the awards. For the second, that’s additionally one thing you’re pleased with, however actually, I imply, it’s the long-term success. And the long-term suggestions that basically retains you going and that motivates you additionally to take the subsequent steps. And that’s it for me, actually.

Ryan DeLuca: It’s simply this superb feeling generally if you’re like, “this was actually simply an concept in our heads.” Like, and it’s loopy that that’s attainable as people, so we will do that working collectively. Nevertheless it simply this concept, which no matter that’s, you realize, in our brains and these neurons. And dealing collectively, after which hastily there it’s, and you then get that suggestions that you simply dreamed of. Of like, “that was so enjoyable.” Or “the rehab was rather more efficient.” Prefer it’s virtually bizarre. Virtually loopy that we will even try this.

Preston Lewis: Yeah, no. I imply, simply to piggyback on that as properly, I feel the opposite cool factor, particularly within the ICAROS case, is that, and I assume additionally with the Black Field case, is that the medical business is beginning to acknowledge this know-how as an actual legit software for rehabilitation, [00:35:00] in addition to the health business for all the opposite stuff we talked about.

You talked about if a medical college or facility is utilizing it in your finish, which means they’ve in all probability gone by some fairly loopy rigorous testing. They’ve actually vet, I imply the medical business has all of the compliance points and stuff like that, they usually actually vet the applied sciences that are available in.

So I feel it speaks volumes to the legitimacy of this know-how, of your know-how, the truth that they’re really utilizing that time and again of their amenities.

Johannes Scholl: Ultimately, actually it’s about, like, does it assist or not? That’s the easy query. While you communicate with sufferers. I imply, it’s just like the enjoyable and every little thing, that’s good to have, however does it assist me?

And once more, that’s the place I imagine digital actuality already is a recreation changer. And there’s a whole lot of research accessible already on, Digital actuality, not solely with health, but in addition, like, going to the dentist and having the headset on, and like all of these results, every little thing that’s occurring in your mind in digital actuality that you should use positively.

That’s additionally my sturdy perception why digital actuality won’t disappear, as a result of it already discovered its niches the place you realize it actually makes a [00:36:00] enormous distinction. You may’t let go of it anymore. Now we’ll see the way it grows extra into different areas as properly by turning into extra reasonably priced, simpler to make use of, extra palms on, and on, and on and on.

Nevertheless it already has confirmed its effectiveness. So it’s a confirmed know-how now.

Ryan DeLuca: It’s exhausting for me to carry this one again, as a result of I hold excited about, like, the rehab. It’s like, you realize, you’re saying just like the particular person goes into rehab. And like, “I can’t transfer my arm this a lot.” After which, you realize, they’ve to maneuver outta the way in which to a hospital, after which they present they really can. I’m imagining, like, you realize, an older particular person in VR, they begin strolling. Pace is gradual. However they’re on this good, lovely setting. After which Cocaine Bear comes flying at them they usually should run away. And it’s like, “look, see? I instructed you you might. Look what you probably did.” You see folks freaking out. Which may not be a good suggestion. However, like, yeah hastily… “see how briskly you ran?” And so they’ll be like, “I’m by no means doing this once more.”

Preston Lewis: Now you make me wanna watch Cocaine Bear. I nonetheless haven’t seen it. That sounds superior.

Ryan DeLuca: It’s fairly enjoyable.

Preston Lewis: Nicely and to piggyback on that, as properly, with the Black Field stuff so far as the research. We’ve carried out a number of research with UCLA, [00:37:00] college research. And, man, the outcomes that the folks within the research have skilled are insane. Like, we did one the place it was three months of exercises, which was about twelve weeks of thrice per week doing a Black Field exercise. And it proved that Black Field’s expertise in comparison with, like, the standard cable resistance machine coaching, which was “the management”, resulted in larger decreased physique fats, elevated lean physique mass, decrease resting coronary heart fee, decrease systolic diastolic blood strain, elevated flexibility. Just about each, each metric you might have measured the Black Field VR exercise was higher than the standard cable resistance coaching. And that is all based mostly on college research, so we imagine that is the way forward for health, because it sounds such as you do as properly. And the entire business’s simply getting began.

Johannes Scholl: The business ought to work collectively. The electronics producers, the software program builders. I imply, everyone knows particularly with sure prospects, how exhausting it may be to essentially set up digital actuality tools at [00:38:00] some place after which get it operating. Like, putting in is one half, however then have it being operated by the folks on website who is likely to be, I don’t know, healthcare professionals, no matter. The simpler it turns into, the better the job might be for us. And finally the extra sufferers, customers, will profit from it.

Preston Lewis: You and your staff have been on the forefront of innovation on this house. So, we wanna know, our viewers needs to know what’s subsequent for ICAROS? Do you have got any thrilling new upcoming developments or merchandise that you’ve got within the pipeline?

Johannes Scholl: I discussed earlier that our focus actually is software program improvement. So I can inform, like, inside this 12 months or so, you’ll not see any new loopy {hardware} from ICAROS.

We continuously carry loopy new {hardware}, however not for now. We’re actually specializing in each app and digital actuality software program improvement. Increase the group, making the person consumer profile extra essential for the person consumer. Like this itch, to continuously, like, log in. These form of results are crucial to us.

After which, we’ll conduct a number of research in Germany with [00:39:00] hospitals and universities round decrease again ache. We simply launched a examine with the College Clinic in Heidelberg. They’re working with post-Covid, long-Covid sufferers. Most of it’s actually about motivation and getting folks into exercise once more through the use of digital actuality.

That might be very attention-grabbing to see the end result of that examine. After which, in fact, implementing all of those learnings into our software program, these individualized coaching packages will play a serious position. So, a lot of stuff occurring within the digital world at ICAROS proper now.

Ryan DeLuca: I simply wanna say, it’s an honor to have the ability to have you ever on the podcast. In the event you would’ve instructed my fourteen 12 months outdated self, once I was watching Lawnmower Man, that I’d discover and meet the person who really make this a actuality and I’m gonna get match from it. Like, that’s, I’d’ve blown my fourteen 12 months outdated thoughts.

Johannes Scholl: Thank Preston, Ryan, it’s our pleasure to be part of your podcast. And in addition following you, and your progress and course of all through the time, working with digital actuality and in addition having this worldwide connection [00:40:00] in Europe and the US, which I feel is a really cool factor. And it’s not a given, and when you’ve got a relation, it is advisable work on a relation. And that’s cool. So once more, it’s my pleasure to contribute to this podcast right this moment a bit. Man, I sit up for our subsequent dialog.

Preston Lewis: Superior. Nicely, that’s on a regular basis we’ve got. Thanks a lot, Johannes, for becoming a member of us and sharing your staff’s story, insights and keenness for creating the way forward for VR Health with our viewers. For any of you within the viewers, as standard, if you happen to’d wish to get in touch with the staff, we’ll put all the data into the present notes, so be sure you verify these out. Thanks once more.

Increase. Explosions. All proper. Let’s, uh, that was superior. Um, let’s do…

Ryan DeLuca: Are we presupposed to dab now?

Preston Lewis: Yeah, yeah.

Thanks for listening to the VR Health Insider podcast. Have you learnt of anybody that must be on our present or have suggestions? Don’t neglect to e mail us at podcast vr health insider.com and comply with us at VR Health Insider on Twitter, Instagram, and YouTube. You too can be a part of our Discord channel. Till subsequent time, hold creating and dreaming up the subsequent large factor that can [00:41:00] revolutionize the world of health.